"The Human Trial" with Lisa Hepner, a groundbreaking clinical trial to cure Type One Diabetes

In this episode we have an extensive conversation with Lisa about her life with diabetes, how it has impacted her work, her journey with the documentary industry, and how she remains hopeful that we will find a cure for Type 1 diabetes!

Featured on this Episode:
Lisa Hepner, Director/Producer of The Human Trial, and her partner Guy Mossman run LA-based Vox Pop Films, a production company specializing in non-fiction content and commercials. For the last 25 years, Lisa has produced a variety of films and programs for Sony Pictures Classics, HBO, A&E, PBS, Lifetime, Discovery, MTV, TLC, and the CBC. She has produced for acclaimed directors Jonathan Demme, Michael Apted, Julie Taymor, and Lisa F. Jackson, among others. When she wasn’t in the field, Lisa worked at the PBS station, 13-WNET, producing a variety of programs, including the Emmy Award winning series, Air: America’s Investigative Reports. In 2003, she co-directed the feature doc, Peace by Peace: Women on the Frontlines. Shot in Afghanistan, Argentina, Burundi, Bosnia-Herzegovina and the US, the film premiered at the UN in 2003 and aired on PBS in 2004. She has lived with type 1 diabetes for 30 years, for about as long as she’s worked in film and TV. This is Lisa’s feature directorial debut. 

Resources:
TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30146N9nY7U

Transcript

0:25

Welcome to another episode of Embracing Diabetes. I'm Dr. Liz Stevens. And I'm Amy Stockwell. And today we have the distinct pleasure of talking with filmmaker and documentarian, Lisa Hoeppner, director and producer of the Human Trial. This amazing movie follows the story of two patients with Type one Diabetes who are involved in a groundbreaking clinical trial, attempting to cure them of their insulin dependence. The project was born out of Lisa's own experience with Type one Diabetes, which she has lived with for 30 years, and the frustration of the ongoing mantra that the Cure will be here in five years. Despite all of this, she remains hopeful. During the conversation we get to talk with Lisa about her life with diabetes, how it has impacted her work and her journey with the documentary industry. So you're our first interview. I'm the first one, Holy mo. Oh my gosh. Yeah. No pressure. Little pressure. Gosh, not at all. Yeah. Oh, that's so wonderful. I'm really happy to be here. Oh my goodness. Yes. Thank you so much. Guys that do great work in your space. So one of our questions that we're gonna ask everybody kind of as a lead off is if you feel comfortable with it, just tell us a little bit about your personal journey with diabetes when you were diagnosed, and maybe something that stands out from that experience that was memorable. I think we all have like something that really stuck. With us. No, absolutely. I think any of us with type one have this memory etched forever. Mm-hmm. in our minds about when we're diagnosed and whether we knew it at the time, how life changing that diagnosis would be. You know, I liken it too. Where were you when JFK was shy? Is that right? You know, that's my mother's generation. But you know, it is so deeply profound. When we're given that type one diagnosis. And for me, I was diagnosed when I was at the University of Edinburgh in Scotland. Oh. And I was studying my year abroad. I was at in Toronto and I went there having worked two jobs, summer jobs, and you know, it, I really wanted to. Spread my wings, so to speak. And so I did when I went to Edinburgh and within a month of being there in 1991, I got diagnosed with type one. And it was really random because I was showing the symptoms of dka, but nothing that needed hospitalization. And I, I think this is actually a great takeaway for listeners is that in order for me to get free, he. In Edinburgh at the university, I had to, everybody had to submit a urine sample and get weighed. And so you know how much she can tell from a urine sample? Mm-hmm. and they're like, You have glucose in your urine. And I said, What do you mean I'm drinking a lot of Guinness? Is that what I mean, I literally started as probably the most ignorant person about diabetes and my parents knew nothing about it. My, my dad was living in LA and he was like, Get a second. This can't be, I don't even know what that is, Diabetes. And then my mom, who living in Ottawa at the time said, God, I think our, your great uncle has type two, but that's not hereditary. So it, it really was quite a profound moment. And, uh, when you ask about that searing moment, when I was diagnosed, it was when literally I was by myself in this clinic. Dr. Hepburn diagnosed me ironically enough, and there was no one in the. And the, the doctor checked my feet and I was like, Why are you doing that? Diabetes is the number one reason for amputation in the uk. God Oh God, welcome to the party. This sounds terrible. Awesome. And yeah, and I was also high. I mean, I was like 26 Millis times 20. I was high, so it wasn't feeling well. Right. And I was by myself in 21. And then they, The most staring moment perhaps was after they showed me a quick video on hypo glycem. And how bad it is. They sent me home on my bicycle student house and said, Just check in with a nurse. This weekend. I was not my house. Wow. And I, I, I rode home in the rain, in the Scottish rain and I thought, I think my life is over. That was my beginning. And you stayed, you stayed or did you go home? I stayed, I think perhaps my family, cuz we were so ignorant, minimized. D. And I went around to Europe by myself. It was my backpack, went to Eastern Europe and my mom now says, God, Lisa, I don't think I would do that. Allow you to do that. It was just me and my little pens, my needle. Wow. That's part of story. Yeah. It breaks my heart how many, uh, I, and I don't. Well, and you're, you are a doctor Liz, so, you know, but I just don't know if doctors know the, the power of their language, and especially in those initial diagnoses, and I mean, everything they say, even the word diabetes. I was 14 and I was like, Die. It has the word die in it. I'm gonna die Yeah. Not handled as well as we would like. Yeah. Yeah. And it sticks with you, I think. And often I think it creates this sort of form of ptsd. Honestly. I often, we have to get past that whole narrative just to kind of even have a relationship that someone's gotta tell me their whole story. And it's just really, it's hardly awful, you know? And we would add to it is that, interestingly enough, I mean, endocrinologists like yourself, I mean, you understand the severity of the disease and, and how, you know, intense the management is. But at the same time, I mean, do you have the bandwidths to also be like the therapist, walk the patient through the, the, you know, and to navigate these new hurdles. And I, I do think having been in the trenches for a long time, that we do ask a lot of our endos and it is a tough job. So heads off to you. Oh, thanks. Yeah, it is. I think there's oftentimes that I feel very out of my comfort. With coping and I've developed all these like smart phrases in Epic, which are basically these lists of things that you provide to people, like our counselors and just all sorts of, you know, resources online and just places to look for information. Cuz people are often really alone, you know, they just don't know anybody, which is why your movie is so important that just, I think at any time we can create community it's just like mm-hmm. so helpful cuz it is so much work. People just navigate it all by themselves. And I think those of us who are involved in the community have skewed perceptions of, because we know so many people on online and, and we are so connected at, it's easy to forget about those people who are living in more rural places, who maybe they're the only one with type one in their school or something. I still believe there are a lot of those people out there. There are me so many, and this is, you know, honestly what I like to talk about is Greg Romero, patient two on the trial. He's such a sweetheart. He was really surviving on his own. He didn't know anyone with type one until they met me and Mor patient two, and he knew his. But his father had gone blind glycemic episode that left him brain damaged and was found three days later in his apartment. Oh God. Greg didn't know anybody. And I think it's really important for us professional diabetics because we are, and and I say this with great respect to us. But we live in our bubble. Mm-hmm. Totally. And we live in our bubble. We have access to the care, the treatments. But when you look at the statistics, which are really alarming, There are people behind those stats. And last year in 20 21, 6 0.7 million people died from diabetes 6.7. That's type one and type two yeah. Is the size of Utah and Connecticut. Wow. And, and where, you know, I mean this is the thing when, when you have the group of professional diabetics who, you know, talk about climbing Mount Kilimanjaro, and I did it and. You know, you can do anything. I don't take that power, those words away from them. Mm-hmm. but I ask them for a larger perspective. Right. Those who are behind you and, and no shame. I don't like it honestly. When people say, Well, we have the tools, we have the resources, and by the way, we can get that hba Wednesday of six. You know, a lot of people can't, and even those, and I hate to sound like I'm on my soapbox, but I think I probably am. You know, there was a study done I think three years ago that showed that 22% of people who were on all of this treatment and, and dad did treatments, you know, devices. Only 22% actually got in the correct H V A one C range. So that means there are a lot of us getting complications. And like I said, I mean, not to mention the people who can't even afford Right. It's. Yeah, that's a lot of people. I definitely get on my soapbox too, about being grateful that I have good state insurance, that I can afford to be on a pump and a cgm, but how frustrated I am that it's not available to everybody. But just to go back tiny bit, I'm very curious to know about your, your background and how you got into filmmaking and documentary making and. Which I imagine is very much a male dominated field, unless I'm wrong, and navigating that as a woman with a chronic illness, tell us a little bit about that part of your life. You know, I'm happy to say that in documentary filmmaking, non-fiction filmmaking, there are a lot of women, but a lot of great female directors and producers, and in fact, most of my mentors are. So I'm happy to report that Hollywood's a different story, but I am happy to see that women are directing narratives more than ever. Mm-hmm. in terms of handling the demands of production and the instability of being in this field, living with a chronic disease. I do, I didn't handle it very well. You know, I, I hit it. I didn't purposely hide it, but nor did I talk about it. Right. So, you know, when I was eating a crew meal, On set. Obviously, you know, if I wasn't on the pub or whatever, but you'd see me inject and I'm like, Yeah, I have to type one diabetes, and everyone's like, Oh, quick. Cool. No one thought about it. Really? Who cares? It's like my deal, right? But I, I did hide when my blood sugars were super high. Mm-hmm. because I didn't want anyone to think I was groggy and I couldn't direct a scene. It brings me back to an example of when I was in Costa r. And I was directing a surf video and I, I had my insulin in my bu tech around me. Cause I was doing shots at the time. My insulin literally cooked in the heat. Ah, I know that. I didn't know that that's what happened. It was like many years ago or, and so I injected insulin that wasn't working and I, I was like, Oh my gosh, what am I doing? 350? Oh my God. Can't think straight. But did I tell anyone and should I have? Yes. And then I, I went home to my amazing cde, Carolyn Robertson, who I adore, and she said, Lisa, don't you know insulin's a protein? It cooks, right? Yeah. So isn't, So why don't we tell, Why is it so hard to tell? I mean, I have many examples of doing that myself. You know, you get diagnosed, you get a starter. You hopefully join a support group, but knowing how, which it impacts every aspect of your life, we, I don't need to tell you guys this, you know, there, there's an overwhelmed factor and so it's kind of like on you, on you as a patient do as much research as possible. And in those moments, I think too, you know, if you told someone and they didn't know, I mean, they wouldn't necessarily know how to help you. So then you've got you and this other person. Anxious about what's going on. I mean, people often think when low blood sugars are supposed to take insulin, there's so much like about how everything works. So yeah, it can be tricky to, to pull in the team. You know, it's great if it's someone who knows what to do, but sometimes that's not the case. Yeah, and and I was single at the time. I just wanna add that I was think with navigating New York City and producing on my own and my family, God bless them, I love my parents very. I really do. And they've done a lot in the diabetes community since my diagnosis, but they didn't really understand, cuz they didn't live with, they never saw it. It was my diagnosis. So I, I was, I never, no one ever came with me to a doctor's appointment and Right until a guy, my fiance, he was like, You need to meet my endo. I love him. And you meet me, Carol. I love. They're, They're my life's line and dye, who's a great guy, and my husband now of 14 years, he said, Sure, I'd love to meet them. Yeah. And he's been really helpful to me. How did you go from the documentaries that you were working on and then deciding to take this personal intense project on? That's a really good question. I mean, I think some of it came from the fact that when I moved to LA with Guy in 2000, And I was 38 years old. I wanted to have a kid. Mm. I was already late to the game. I'm a type one and I couldn't work the hours. I was working for like famous Hollywood directors, which I did sometimes cuz they would work in docs on the side. and I, I really wanted to be able to create my own space so I had time to go to my doctors. Mm-hmm. that meant I started a company with my husband doing our own nonfiction project. This was one of the nonfiction projects because, you know, it was a very personal guy's learning curve was huge. Um, being a partner of someone with type one and after a really, you know, terrible light of high bows. The guy said, Let's make a film. So we became an independent project at our independent production company, and both Streams at work enabled me to see my myriad of doctors and to try and get pregnant. So how Will, Will, as we didn't have this prepared in our questions, but just because it is such a important topic for women with. What was your pregnancy? How was that experience? Was that a difficult experience? I think it's very there for me to be completely candid. Yes. I talked to my son about it, so he knows, and that was really critical to me Before I, you know, I prefaced the story with that. I, I didn't get pregnant, I couldn't, didn't work for me. So I, I did four years of iv. And all that commensurate misery And you know, my husband and I quite costly and so we bartered videos literally with all of the reproductive endocrinologists and we would make a website video and I'd be like, accounts for one cycle, two cycle. And we did it cause I really wanted to have a shirt out. We really wanted to have a kid. So at 42, 3, 4, it wasn't happening and it was definitive. So then we, we did a deep dive into what was next. Was it, you know, adoption? Was it fostering a child? Was it actually using a surrogate? And because I know a lot about science, then at that point I knew I had learned. I was like, Man, let's make science work for us. Okay, we're gonna go do the surrogate thing. And, and so it was, and I think this is fair to say, it's the first time I probably have said this, but it was an egg donor plus a surrogate. Wow. And when he did it, So it, it's a beautiful creation. I say to, I say to Jack, You're my biggest production, who, you're the And, uh, we couldn't be happier with him. We love him, really, And we're in, we're in touch with our gestational carrier who is this surrogate. She's his godmother. No, it was a, it was a really amazing experience and because it's about women, and I can say to you, I, I nursed, I didn't give birth, but I nursed. That's awesome. Criminal. I'm determined. I was like, I can get pregnant and I didn't really think I would miss being pregnant cuz it's so stressful. Right. But I didn't wanna be denied nursing. I did a protocol and it enabled me to nurse, which is so great cuz I felt like while I was nursing, my blood sugars were even I could eat whatever like it I really didn't wanna give it up. I was like, well, it's working out. You kids and you have, I always respect women who've gone through a type one pregnancy and yeah, kudos to you. But, you know, and that's what I, I want to spread the word on that is that all I heard was how negative, negative, and how high risk it was, and how women with diabetes would have, you know, giant babies. And how I went into it terrified. And I think we really need to do what we can to change stereotype or to change that message because it's, it. I think it scares a lot of people off needlessly or does this creates a lot of anxieties through the whole experience. Yeah, exactly. Hard enough. But then, you know, to be just like terrified with everything and you know, truly nowadays with stuff online, there's, it's often not. Us. It's, what do you think, Right on these different websites and blogs and, sorry that I keep getting sidetracked, but it's a act to the movie And then I'll turn it over to Liz. Tell, tell us a little bit about me and Greg. I felt like I fell in love with both of them and I, I want to know how they're doing and how, how did you get connected with them and did you have to work with them a lot? Like coach them on how to talk to the camera, or was it like purely organic conversations? I would love to know about that whole process. I love Lauren and Greg and I'm so happy that you do too. And I'm really happy that we captured, uh, their personality on camera. Mm-hmm. they were, they are amazing. I text with them. In fact, I've been texting with them. Uh, because they're flying in. We're flying them in for Canadian premieres of the film in Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver. Yeah. So I'm really excited to see them. But just to say about the casting process, which I'm gonna put in quotes, casting, we didn't have much say at all in terms of which patients we profiled because we didn't get access to all of the clinical trial. We got access to the University of Minnesota and hats out to them and thank you for giving us access. But we, you know, we met Patient one, Lauren, when she was considering going in the trial and then we met patient two because the clinical trial coordinator said, Oh, you might wanna talk to Greg. Mm-hmm They were patients one and two already. So we had no say, We just got lucky. Really, really. And you had no idea what they were gonna be like on camera in the beginning? No, not really. And this is the leap of faith. You do as a documentarian. You jump off into the abyss, but you jump off holding the subject's hand. Hmm. And, and, and when it works, you're jumping off together. And it's definitely a leap of faith when someone agrees to let you in their role, you let you meet their family. To let you hear their deepest fears and insecurity and to let you follow them in an experimental trial. Yeah. So it took a lot of trust from both of them to enable us to do this. And you know, certainly my being type one helped. Mm-hmm. tremendously because they knew, I knew we had an unspoken language. Of course we did. And so we helped each. You know, they would lend me Omnipod to buy, ran out on set. I would give to gray sensors. You know, it's, it's you. I think one we have to help each other. Right. We have to help each other. And they were just very kind and generous to let us feel as much as we did. Yeah. I loved how, you know, there's a bit of a stereotype I think sometimes in the type one community amongst healthcare providers are that people with type one diabetes who take care of themselves are wealthy and white and to have resources and all that kind of stuff. And I, so I, I really appreciated how, um, you gave us very, sort of different people. Mm-hmm. who came from different life. Had, you know, just different experiences with their diabetes and I always feel like, you know, people are doing the best they can. Mm-hmm. with what they have in front of them. People are very smart and they do the best they can, and I just really felt that with those two people, it was really, I thought it was great. Yeah. Than that. I mean, Mar is, she just texted me today that, you know, she's on Ozempic, she's doing Afreza. She loves ariza. A is for diabetes. Mm-hmm. Okay. And so she loves Ariza swears by Afreza. And right now your H B one C is 5.9 hurt wheels. Like literally sending me emojis. Of course. Good. And I'm like, I girl. I don't know how you did that, but that's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So, so she's a person who, you know, came from a family that was incredibly supportive. She also is a, a person who takes risks and likes to try everything, like wants to line up for pink's transplant. We'll have this stem cell line in, you know, this little credit card implanted in her. She's always been doing clinical. And so this, this was a natural kind of step for her. But Ray, not so much. I mean, Greg doesn't have the resources that many people do, and so signing up for this clinical trial meant free supplies. Let's forget. And, and they deserved everything they got for free. Just look at all the time they gave and the surgeries and everything. Yeah, for sure. They were so brave. I mean, just that came across. They were so authentic and so brave, and it was so heartbreaking to watch their journey and yeah, that, that full. Their stories were really, really moving to me. One thing we talked about too, that I was curious was just the amount of emphasis on money. Like I thought it was very cool about how the people that were involved in the trials and the researchers were all seemed very committed, despite not having a lot of connection. Like I kept thinking that one of those people would be somehow connected to diabetes, but it really didn't seem like it. And yet they were around. I, I mean, I don't know quite why they felt that way. Maybe it was you or I, I don't know, but it. The, uh, for me, one of my biggest struggles these days is just how much everything caught trying to get what they need and have to fight with insurance companies all the time. And it's just absolutely demoralizing. And so I was just curious what, how you managed that, how you thought about how you were gonna portray that in the movie. Cause, you know, as it was kind of un spooling, I was like, Oh, you could have gone down a different, Road and been like, you know? Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. I mean, there were so many themes to talk about in this film. Mm-hmm. I could have this way and I could have gone that way. There was so much, and that's why it took me a long time to edit the film. I did not wanna make a film about, you know, the cost of insulin. There was another film being made about that called Pay or Die. Let you know, Let those great filmmakers do that. I didn't want this film to be an indictment of big pharma. Now I, I think big Pharma can do a lot better, but at the same time, that wasn't the focus of the film, right? The focus of the film. The where the patients and the biotech company that is trying to push a cure forward. What does that look like? And so, you know that, that was the mo of the film. I mean, I learned so much. You know, people still con. Biotech innovators with big pharma and really smart people, right? And they're like, No, no, they're different. This little biotech company, they're the engines of change. Big pharma comes in possibly in phase three if they're showing good results. Yeah, the risk is mitigated and the benefits are end potential. So it would a great time for big pharma to come in. So in that way, you know, I do a nod to big pharma in terms. their role that they play in funding innovation. They certainly have a little, I call it my little sequence chapter on it. Mm-hmm. you know, why doesn't big pharma take more risks so you don't have to go check to check? That's literally my quote in the film. And you know, it was hard question for them to answer because they were gonna beholden to their big pharma supporters. So it's like, you know, how honest could they be with me? Right. But I do now, it would make life easier. And then one, I, I think we're kind of, I don't know where we are in terms of time, but what are you like, what are your next like, So there were two things. One was like, what are you hopeful for? Like there's really this message of hope, just, you know, the film. And I think the ending is very hopeful and. Tell me a little bit about how you're feeling now that you've been out and audiences have been seeing your movie. And I would imagine it's pretty inspirational. I would, you know, just, I think, I just can't even imagine how people respond to your creation of something that's kinda spreading the word a little bit. It, it's an amazing experience to see and a darkened theater. It's amazing. And I've seen it, you know, in a theater, just in la I was doing a q and a after, you know, and I saw people so moved. No one's talking at the end. Right. You know, they have type one or even if they have a chronic disease. I mean, it's really intense and I think what the film does is reflect the intensity back to them because it's okay. Like it's okay to say, Is this really hard? Yes, it's okay to talk about your complications. Right. You know, And what people have told. Is that, you know, for the first time they felt that their experience was captured on film, that they could use it as, you know, a Crip sheet. Like, Hey, you don't know what type one is. Watch this film. This is my life. Understand it. There were other, you know, people who were very profoundly moved. One mom said to me in New York, That, you know, her 17 year old son, you know, took like kind of weeks to kind of able to formulate what the film meant to him. And you know, I don't want to upset literally the kids with type one. I really don't. But that's not my mission with this film. You know, my mission with this film is to change how diabetes is perceived by the general public. No cure research is, And understood by the general public. My goals with this film are to help accelerate sheer research. Show that it can be, and I'm not a Pollyanna really, you know, I come from a journalist background, but I fully believe that we can get there in five years. I know the community will like, you know, yell at me and say, What are you doing, Lisa? You're, you're selling the false hope thing. I'm tired of this. I've had it, you know, 40 years, and you know what? I will still go on the record and say that I think it will happen in five years. And that's because I, I see the research, I've talked to top researchers and they tell me things and I see the. And it, you know, it certainly, I think cell therapy is the avenue that, that the so-called expert believe will come to a functional cure the fastest. Wow. And I do think that's happening, and I think that's happening with Vertex in Boston. But you know, Doug Melton's lab at Harvard, you know, was his company was purchased by Vertex. And Vertex just acquired by a site. By a site. Yeah. That was big news. And I was very happy. I don't look at it as a monopoly. I don't look at it as squishing the competition. Absolutely not. We are too loud. We, This community's not gonna allow this squishy, this squishy of the competition. No, this is only just gonna help us. It's gonna help us get to a cure faster. I think you're the smartest minds in the US, in the cell therapy space who have come. To take really good data and really good results in the first couple of patients and take it to another level and, and that other level is to get rid of the immunosuppressant drug that is gonna be done through hopefully CRISPR technology. That is gene editing a stem cell line so that it is not. Discernible. It basically hides from the immune system. Right? And that's the holy gra. That's the holy gra. And they are working feverishly on it. And it's not just in America, it's in Canada, it's in England, it's in China. The big pharma players are in it. Everyone. Okay. This isn't a thing. I mean, I hope I get viewers, you know, Or listen, Cause I think that's, But I do think that cell therapy is where people are placing their bets and coming from you, and especially the way that you kind of framed the documentary at the beginning, talking about how we all have heard from our endos that, Oh, cure is five years off, 10 years off. So in the end, hearing it from you that you really do believe. For someone who hasn't had hope, Cuz I've been cynical for so long, it really renews my hope and and because of you, you're not giving us false hope. And I believe that. Well, thank you for saying that. And what I realized again, making this film is. You know, sitting back and having some distance from that five year promise, that five year promise means something. Like, if researchers in the medical community didn't think it was curable, it wouldn't say five years. That's true. Well, why would they be selling us a bill of goods? And, and I know that most people had the hearts in the right place. They see suffering and they do wanna provide real food. Frankly, this disease should have been cheered by now. It's tricky. More tricky than people think, but it can be cured. Look at what we did with the Covid vaccine, right In arms. Opts in arms in six months, right? Throw money at a problem, things are gonna happen. You mandate collaboration between big pharma companies, ferments. Military was involved. Look at that. Science was working. Right. It was there, but in six months we had shots in arms. Yeah. It changed, it changed the trajectory of, Of the virus. Right. I'm a big fan of science, let me tell you. Was that always, I know we have to let you go, but was that always something in your background or did you have to do a ton of research to, to be able to talk to these like brilliant scientists? It was never in my background. I'm an English lit major. Mm-hmm. I write, I didn't do well in biology in high school. I would beg not to write the final exam. Yeah. No, no. It was not in my brain at whatsoever. But being becoming type one, you have to learn a lot of it. Right. And math. So it just became integrated into my life. But in terms of actually understanding a clinical trial, how stem cells. No, it was pretty intense, my learning curve, but, and my husband and guys, but we did a ton of research, talked to so many people. Yeah, I bet. And we were filming for a very long time. Yeah. Yeah. 10 years. So, one last question. I, I don't know, Amy, if you wanted to just ask about kind of how to give back? Uh, Yeah, just, yeah, just for like a takeaway for listeners, what would you say, what kind of advice or what would you encourage people to do? People who watch the, the documentary and like me, when you see the scientists begging for money and not getting it, and you're like, ah, I wanna do something. So what can, what can they do? What can we do? Thank you for asking that, and I think if the film has moved you or you feel that it, you know, really raises the awareness of what living with this disease is like, encourage people to see it. We have a te od release on November 11, probably me Friday, November 11th, and that means that we'll be on Google. iTunes in Amazon. Okay. And we're doing a big launch for that because it's around Global Diabetes Day World Diabetes. Oh. Which is my November 14th. So we purposely chosen that date as our T release, spread the word, you know, quiet for a dollar 99. It is so important that our sales and our metrics are. So that we launch it onto Netflix and we launch it onto Amazon. You know, we are talking to US broadcasters, but that's a little further down the line. I think if you want people to see it and share the word, the tangible, immediate is sharing on social, sharing word of mouth about the November 11th release. I also think if you wanna host a screening, you can do that quite. We have this all set up on our website. You just click on Host a screening. Thirdly, I think it's really important to know that you can lobby Capitol Hill and your politicians and your representatives to say, We need a cure yesterday. There are people on the Hill who are in listening and want this to happen as well. There is a caucus, the Diabetes Caucus, that is led by Diane. A Democrat. Mm-hmm. Tom Reed, a Republican. How wonderful is it that it's a bipartisan, How wonderful is that? And the Diabetes Caucus is huge, and it includes people you know on the hill who are personally touched by diabetes and many who aren't. And there is a specific thing that you can do to support what they're. And it's supporting Cures Act 2.0. Cures Act 2.0 was put forth by the Diabetes Caucus in November of 2021. And it, it is encouraging early money, seed money be put into these kind of, you know, biotech efforts among other things. But it is powerful. And I do believe that money is the biggest obstacle. So if we can get past that hurdle and you can call your member of the house and call your representative in the house, your voice will be heard. They need to listen to you. Even if it's an intern answering the song, it doesn't matter. They have to log. The fact that you called. Right. It makes a difference. Yes. Yes. I wanna add that Diane Ette has a daughter with Type one diabetes, who is the, The Senator from New Hampshire, Jean Shaheen, Senator Shaheen. She has a granddaughter with Type one diabetes. Wow. I think if they hear from the public and the community that what they're doing is important and to keep fighting, that just puts more fire in the burner. Sonya sat. Yeah, to my type one, she has seen the film. She supports what we're doing. That's great. Yeah. She's an inspiration. When is the premier? We did have our American premiere in our theatrical premiere in June, last June, but we did our Canadian premier in Toronto. In Montreal on October 24th and 28th, respectively. Then I'm excited about this. We're doing World Diabetes Day in Vancouver. Uh, Vancouver, ubc, University of British Columbia is a center for Excellence in Research by J rap, and there's only, you know, five of them in the world. So, you know, they turn the city blue for world diabetes today. Very cool. So we're gonna screen. The 14th of November and you can also check on our website, go under the watch tab. Okay. Make things up and follow us on social, you know, deposed about where the Selma is being show. Thank you so much, Lisa, for making time to talk to us and for all your advocacy and for putting such an important piece of work out there. It is. It was such a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much. I'm so inspired by you and I just, I feel like so fortunate that we got to have a one-on-one with you, so thank you. Yeah, Thank you for making time. It was so great to meet you both. I hope to meet you in person. Thank you for listening to this episode of embracing diabetes with today's guest Raisa, Hapner director and producer of the human child. We hope you enjoyed the conversation and maybe felt inspired or informed or less alone or all of the above. Please subscribe. To embrace and diabetes on all major podcast platforms and leave a comment question or Thanks again. We hope you'll come back for more conversations about diabetes.